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Products => Storage => : emnem July 22, 2011, 12:38:05 PM

: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: emnem July 22, 2011, 12:38:05 PM

Even after performing the work around (http://www.alexanderwilde.com/2011/04/os-x-lion-connection-error-with-afp-and-workaround/? ) pointed out in similar threads.  I am unable to access any data on the NAS.

 

Need either a firmware upgrade or better instructions on a workaround.

 

Any amplifying information would be appreciated.

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: sbayle July 22, 2011, 12:47:32 PM

I've got the original TeraStation as well and need a fix asap.

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: clfischer July 22, 2011, 12:58:29 PM

Terastation III (TS-RXL) here. Haven't tried the workaround but AFP definitely doesn't work with Lion and it should.

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: hsteveberry July 22, 2011, 03:54:19 PM

Same model and same problem. I know the TeraStation is older but i got my business on them. We need a fix.

 

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: uofmtiger July 22, 2011, 07:24:01 PM

 

I just wanted to request a fix, too.  I don't feel comfortable making the changes in terminal, so I am waiting for them to release an update.  I hate not having my NAS because my iTunes library is there.

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: BenFranklin1776 July 22, 2011, 10:10:57 PM

Buffalo has been aware of this problem since at least March and they have done nothing about it. The problem is that  Apple disabled support for DHCAST 128 in OSX Lion and all Buffalo NAS drives need Netatalk 2.2 installed and updated to work with Time Machine. (Or Netatalk 2.1.5 source can be compiled with uams_dhx2 support.)?

 

They have acknowledged the problem on their Asian support forums: 

http://www.buffalo-asia.com/support/macosxlion/index.html#networkhdd?

 

But I was told by a Buffalo tech that the Asian support forums do not apply to products in the United States.

 

If you are a dissatisfied customer, I suggest that you contact the Better Business Bureau and notify them of false advertisement, as Buffalo clearly does not support OSX 10.3.9 and later as it claims to in its advertising. Additionally, you can rate Buffalo NAS drives as 1 star on Amazon, Newegg and Tiger Direct--citing lack of support as your reason.

 

If Buffalo does not want to support its customers, then we should not support them as a company.??

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: uofmtiger July 23, 2011, 10:16:30 AM

I am going to give them a couple of weeks before I go to Amazon and other review sites to trash their products.  I think they should release an update soon that at least fixes the ability to connect since there is already a way to fix it if you want to mess with terminal settings.  Surely, a script that can handle this should not be that much of a problem for them to produce?

 

The issue with backing up to it might be another issue all together, but I just want my iTunes library for now..which resides on my NAS.  Also, my Plex library is out there, too, so I would really like to have that resolved.   

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: agentlatte July 23, 2011, 02:59:52 PM

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/storage/2011/07/22/lion-blocks-third-party-nas-backup-40093492/?

 

Buffalo: This issue is gaining mainstream media attention.

 

While the original TeraStations are relatively old by now, thanks to their remarkable quality a large percentage are still in use. Owners of those devices will be looking to upgrade soon. If they have a choice between a device made by people who are forcing him to upgrade traumatically through their poor support, and say a competitor sold by Apple directly which will be ensured continued compatibility, which one do you think they'll choose?

 

I'm in that situation now, and hoping that Buffalo will take the relatively small amount of time and effort needed to update the SMB and AFP daemons on all TeraStation/LinkStation devices.

 

Happy and loyal customers also share their experiences with their friends ;)

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: BenFranklin1776 July 23, 2011, 11:19:03 PM

File a complaint with the FTC and BBB here for false advertising:

 

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en?

https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/complaintlink.aspx?

 

Their NAS drives do not work with OSX Lion 10.7 or Time Machine on 10.7 but are advertised as working with any version of OSX 10.3.9 or newer. Buffalo has been aware of this issue since February and has not even released an official statement acknowledging that it is a problem or that they are working on a fix.

 

I have used Buffalo products for several years and have been very satisfied with them in the past, but I spent three weeks with their technical support and was treated as though I was an incompetent fool. I would have been fine with a reply stating "We are aware of the problem and will be releasing an update in the next 2-3 weeks" but I was told that there is no beta, there is no problem, and I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

If you don't complain, then the managers that are responsible for these screw ups will continue to provide shoddy support and ignore their customers.

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: krishkal July 26, 2011, 03:10:49 PM

May not be for the faint of heart, but I installed OpenTera firmware, and updated to Samba 3.0. Now I am able to read/write my TeraStation with OSX Lion. Do a google on "OpenTera" and "TeraStation Telnet firmware" and you will find it. The steps are:

 

1. Flash a new firmware with Telnet enabled from here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/itimpi/telnet.htm?

2. Install the OpenTera v5 upgrade, and then Samba 3 (3.0.37) from here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/itimpi/opentera.htm?

 

I don't use the TeraStation for Time Machine, so I can't say about that. All I know is that I can now read and write to the drive, as I could before. Again, do it only if you are comfortable using Unix command line tools, as you can end up hosing your firmware if you do something wrong. Generally, it is hard to hose up your data, and flashing back to the stock firmware should put you back to where you were, BUT, as always, caveat emptor.

 

(Oh, and as a side benefit, my write throughput on TeraStation went up from about 5 MB/s to 7 MB/s as a result of the Samba upgrade)

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: emnem July 26, 2011, 03:22:43 PM

Looks like the above solution may be the only solution down the pike according to this list of devices that Buffalo is going to support:  http://www.buffalotech.com/files/Buffalo_products_MacOS_X_10.7_Lion.pdf?

 

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: uofmtiger July 29, 2011, 10:40:20 PM

Luckily, I have a Win7 PC still in the mix, so, I plan to just buy an external HD and copy everything over.  It is a major pain, but I don't see a better solution to the problem right now.  I will just keep the NAS as a backup in case/when the external drive fails.   

 

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: PRPechek July 29, 2011, 11:09:55 PM

Friends,

 

I answered most of these question here:

 

http://forums.buffalotech.com/t5/Storage/Mac-OS-10-7-Issues-w-Time-Machine-PLEASE-READ/td-p/74162?

 

We are working on a fix!

 

Regards,

 

Jay Pechek

Public Relations Manager

Buffalo Technology

_________________________________

Office 512.349.1333 | Mobile 512.739.7275

11100 Metric Blvd Ste. 750 | Austin, TX 78758

jayp@buffalotech.com

www.buffalotech.com

_________________________________

Follow us, and join the discussion!

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: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: uofmtiger July 30, 2011, 11:41:48 AM

Your link does not appear to fix the issue with the TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5? that this thread is discussing.  Will there be any fix for those that are still using TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5??

 

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: pfreeman August 01, 2011, 10:57:34 AM

How did you copy the Samba files to the TS when it is read only?

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: rpchris August 01, 2011, 06:03:14 PM

I can confirm that the above fix requiring the installation of opentera and samba 3 worked for me.  It was fairly simple to install.  

 

All the shares on my Terastation are now accessible on Mac OS X Lion.  I don't use this as a backup drive so I can't comment on that, but I again have access to my iTunes library and all of my photos and documents. *whew*

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: bdumd August 02, 2011, 10:14:07 AM

I didn't feel that the complicated instructions were for me BUT I can access the drive (Tera HD-HTGL/R5) via Parallels (new version)

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: emnem August 03, 2011, 01:21:55 PM

After performing the steps that krishkal listed, I was able to get the Mac to use the Nas.  The process isn't hard, but it's also not super intuitive.  It will take a leap of faith to jump into, but will be worth it when you can access your data again.

 

Thanks for your help!!

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: georgeajr August 29, 2011, 08:40:10 PM

Jay-

 

Since your post was a month old, I called Support for an update (as no new Firmware was posted) and they stated Buffalo is not going to come out with a Firmware update for the HD-H1.0TGL/R5.

 

Would you please update you comment and explain why those of us now looking for a new NAS should concider staying with Buffalo?

 

Thanks,

George

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: ampersandee August 30, 2011, 11:42:45 AM

This is disheartening, I just called Buffalo support and they stated that they are working on a firmware update for HD-H1.0TGL/R5 and to check the forms for the release, but the form post are stating contrary reports from support.

 

It's looking like this NAS was abandoned long ago as the last firmware update was almost 4 years ago!

 

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: cnewlander October 16, 2011, 01:19:57 PM

From what link on this page  http://homepage.ntlworld.com/itimpi/telnet.htm?? is the Open Tera firmware downlaoded from?  

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: jarrodb October 27, 2011, 11:00:05 AM

I followed the directions in the link by Krishkal, and I then could not access the NAS... via web UI or SMB.. I could still ping.  Fortunately I was able to re-do the firmware from http://homepage.ntlworld.com/itimpi/telnet.htm?, but would still like to add Samba3 if possible.. has anyone else had challenges getting OpenTera/Samba3 on the Terastation HD-H1.0TGL/R5?

 

Thanks

 

jb

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: GreatEscapee October 29, 2011, 10:28:06 AM

I did have some problems getting this approach to work on a TS-1.0TGL/R5, which sound similar to those jarrodb has experienced.

 

Read the following which have links to the downloads hightlighted below.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/itimpi/telnet.htm#TERA_ORIG?

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/itimpi/opentera.htm??

 

1. Applied telnet enabled firmware 1.12 using English updater - OK

2. Applied OpenTera firmware - OK

3. Used MakeSpace script - broke web UI

4. Re-applied 1.12 - OK web interface back

5. Re-applied OpenTera firmware - OK

6. Applied Samba 3.0.25 with AD support - Not OK, could not access from PC

7. Applied Samba 3.0.37 - OK, had to use muCommander to copy it over

 

By following the directions offered by Krishkal it was ultimately successful. However, even after installing Samba 3.0.37 I had problems with access (I am guessing permissions - really don't know anything technical) which even broke access via muCommander on certain folders. The access problems seemed to go away with deleting folders, re-booting the TeraStation and re-creating them.

 

I don't use Time Machine either but I have fired it up and started a back up as a test, which didn't work as it looked for the backup disk then reported the backup disk was not available.

 

I felt a little out of my comfort zone doing this, so it is quite possible I caused some of these problems and not the firmware updates. I wouldn't have known where to start if I didn't have a PC to copying the files over with, and more importantly back up the data on the TeraStation. Having said that I couldn't use the TeraStation as I wanted under Lion so had nothing to lose. Obviously, back up first and at your own risk update.

 

The low risk approach to gaining file access is muCommander which I discovered from here.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3189768?start=0&tstart=0?

 

I used:

1. Telnet enabled firmware

http://downloads.nas-central.org/Users/itimpi/terapro_112e.zip?

 

2. OpenTera firmware

http://downloads.nas-central.org/Users/itimpi/OpenTera_v5.zip?

 

3. Samba 3.0.37

http://downloads.nas-central.org/Users/itimpi/samba-3.0.37_ppc.zip?

 

 

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: pdasilva November 17, 2011, 09:42:12 PM

My experience is that Lion has upgraded the smb protocol stack and is using a more secure authentication procedure.  I asked Apple's fine engineers for instructions on how to deprecate Lion's smb security protocol back down to Snow Leopard's level.  They suggested using the following command that needs to be run in a terminal window everytime Lion boots:

 

 

 

sudo sysctl -w net.smb.fs.kern_deprecatePreXPServers=0

To restore the smb protocol stack back to Lion's original state either reboot or run in a terminal window:

 

 

sudo sysctl -w net.smb.fs.kern_deprecatePreXPServers=1
: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: zaklee March 11, 2012, 07:59:05 PM
Rpchris, are you connection using AFP or SMB after installing OpenTera? Guessing SMB b/c of instruction to install Samba. What is the functional difference between the two?
: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: crickw May 28, 2012, 01:12:02 PM

Thanks.  This solutions works for my Lion 10.7.3 and HD-H1.0TGL/R5

Wrote an AppleScript to automate that makes it easy to re-connect the drive after those all so infrequent OS restarts.

 

[Automator>Untilities>Run AppleScript]  Paste the following into the input dialog and save as something like Legacy_SMB_Connect.app in your Applications directory.

 

tell application "Terminal" to activate
do shell script "sudo sysctl -w net.smb.fs.kern_deprecatePreXPServers=0" with administrator privileges
tell application "Terminal" to quit
end


: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: noname September 09, 2019, 01:18:16 PM
I know this is VERY OLD thread, and I apologise for necroposting, but if someone could share OpenTera_v5.zip and Samba .zip. It seems that nas-central.org is down. Thank you all in advance!
: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: 1000001101000 September 09, 2019, 01:40:15 PM
Looks like the creator's page is still online:
https://itimpi.updog.co/opentera.htm

I suppose you could contact them and see if they still have a copy.

I believe back in the day I had some luck porting Debian Sarge (3.1) packages to my HD-HTGL but didn't do much with it, certainly nothing as complicated as trying to replace samba.
: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: noname September 09, 2019, 02:11:59 PM
Thank you very much for quick reply!

When I go to this page and try to download anything, nothing happens...

I guess I'll need to contact them for copy of OpenTera.


P.S. I just did... And I got this:

DNS Error: 10660730 DNS type 'mx' lookup of itimpi.freeserve.co.uk responded with code NXDOMAIN Domain name not found: itimpi.freeserve.co.uk

: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: 1000001101000 September 09, 2019, 02:38:03 PM
I tried messing around with some of this type of stuff on the HTGL back in ~2012 and found that most project were no longer active. Likewise around that time most distros dropped PPC support which also limited the tools that were available. I got rid of mine around that time.

Considering these devices are getting to be ~15 years old at this point I doubt you'll find much help with it. Depending on what your issue is that customized firmware from ~7+ years ago probably wouldn't solve your current issues anyway (unless you are trying to connect in OSX 7 like the OP).

 



 
: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: noname September 09, 2019, 03:00:24 PM
Actually, I've found in my basement TeraStation Pro TS-1.0TGL/R5 and I would like to use it on macOS Catalina Beta... :D
: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: noname September 10, 2019, 03:02:18 PM
So, I gave up on OpenTera, installed only latest firmware (1.12) from PC running Windows 7, and had TeraStation up and running. Then from macOS Catalina, since Nas Navigator wouldn't even start, I set up a static IP and using muCommander I had at least ftp server fully working, which is good enough for me. This is still pretty sweet machine, and I love it.
: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: cyberjunkie March 24, 2022, 01:54:10 PM
To keep an interesting thread active, I am going to report on how this old NAS works with the latest Apple OS and hardware.
Just found an old HD-H0.6TGL/R5, with four 160GB drives and a horribly small array size (485GB!) and firmware version 2.80.
The network still had its old config, but I downloaded the last NAS Navigator 2 from Apple Store, run it from an old MacBook Pro unibody (Mojave OS), and had the NAS online in no time! :) It took a while to check the RAID5 array, but everything worked afterwards.
The next morning the NAS was not online anymore, so I restarted NAS Navigator and decided to choose a static address instead of using DHCP. The network share was visible and speed was good enough to play an HD movie from the network share.
I tried to launch the config utility from a Mac Mini M1 (Monterey, latest update), and Rosetta allowed to run the app without faults. I could access the share as guest and started copying the content of the array to a USB 3.0 drive attached to the Mac Mini. Throughput seems to be around 3.1/3.4 MB/sec. All seem to proceed smoothly so far (fingers crossed!).
I also have a Buffalo 1U rack mount NAS to bring back to life, but first I want to try to upgrade the cheaper/older one first.
I found very very few relevant info about HD-HTGL/R5 series machines online. The serial number is not recognised, using another one I found (belonging to the 1TB version) brought me to a download page with ultra old firmware, and to FAQs pages that mostly deal with completely different hardware!  >:(
I'm still left with all my questions:

1) Which is the biggest hard disk size compatible with HD-HTGL/R5 series? Any list of factory approved drives?

2) Which is the right procedure to exchange ALL FOUR drives at once to increase array size? Init files are copied to the the HDDs, so my best guess is to backup the content, undo the array, leave disk 1 as is and exchange the other three drives, format the three disks to get the init files written to them, reboot, exchange the first disk, reboot again and finally format the last disk and build the array. Anybody out there who tried the same procedure? I have some old IDE drives, but they are all quite small... but I have many SATA to IDE adapters lying around. I still have to open the unit so I have no idea if there is enough room for such adapters, and if they would be at all compatible. If there is a chance, well... I have four identical 500GB Seagate Barracuda SATA drives, or four almost identical 2TB drives. Before even attempting to follow this route, it would be nice to know if there is any chance it could work.
Here is the kind of adapter I have. It's red colour, but almost identical:
(https://i.imgur.com/nV34wcS.jpg)

3) I have seen posts online where the firmware version was reported as 3.25. The only two versions I found online are either the 1.2 or the 2.6. My NAS has 2.8 version. Any link to a newer one?

4) In case of disaster I would be happy to have the TFTP utility to copy the init files to the device. Any link to the specific Windows executable? I could use that under Parallels Desktop virtualisation...

Any further advice, link, etc, etc would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance
Ciao

Paolo
: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: 1000001101000 March 24, 2022, 09:54:17 PM
Although the OS lives on the drives a lot of the early boot is from the onboard flash with these old powerpc devices. If you can get the firmware installer to run you can probably install starting with blank drives.

I used sata->ide adapters and 500gb drives with mine for several years. I would expect that 2tb drives would be the largest possible because of the type of partition table the device uses. I also suspect the onboard ide and/or sata-ide adapter would also have a 2tb limit.

It might also not like some modern drives based on how they report sector sizes/etc. You’d have to try them to find out for sure.
: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: emilypurlell March 24, 2022, 11:15:24 PM
Thank you.

I have also found lots of bad advice on the internet, but this worked perfectly.
  1v1 battle (https://1v1-battle.com/)
: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: cyberjunkie March 25, 2022, 06:21:14 AM
Although the OS lives on the drives a lot of the early boot is from the onboard flash with these old powerpc devices. If you can get the firmware installer to run you can probably install starting with blank drives.

I used sata->ide adapters and 500gb drives with mine for several years. I would expect that 2tb drives would be the largest possible because of the type of partition table the device uses. I also suspect the onboard ide and/or sata-ide adapter would also have a 2tb limit.

It might also not like some modern drives based on how they report sector sizes/etc. You’d have to try them to find out for sure.

Your answer is very encouraging. I will try with the adapters. I was afraid that the mechanical build of the NAS wouldn't leave enough room. If new SATA drives could give problems... well, it shouldn't be an issue, as the most recent ones I have lying around are at least 8 years old! :) I also have a number of very fast SAS drives, a pity they are of no practical use for a dirty cheap home network project that should not include Windows machines (only Apple stuff, plus a few Android devices and a rarely used Chromebook). Whatever... I'm sure I have at least four identical Barracuda 500GB drives. I will give a try to those disks first.
Starting with blank drives seems to be a no go. I found a couple of old posts by people who attempted that and ended up with missing boot files. The solution was to inject two init files using a TFTP (Windows exe) specifically made for this kind of hardware. I tried to find the files on the Web but I couldn't. So I will try to take care, delete the array first, number the original drives with a marker, and replace with the new ones one at a time, formatting them before turning the machine off.

Two side issues that could possibly benefit from your vast knowledge:
1) Do you remember which was the latest firmware you found? I mistakenly reported mine as v2.80, but in reality it's 2.18.
2) Did you ever use your NAS with clients running recent versions of OS X? The NAS does not appear in "Network" as a Samba machine unless i first use NAS Navigator2 to access the share.

Thanks for your kind and informative reply

Paolo
: Re: TeraStation HD-H1.0TGL/R5 unable to be accessed by MAC OS X Lion (10.7)
: 1000001101000 March 25, 2022, 12:42:23 PM
Some notes:

The hardware in this device dates back to ~2006 with various bits like controller chips likely designed even earlier. Even an 8 year old drive is new from the device's point of view. There's not much to do except try and see what works.

With the adapters in place it's a very tight fit but it did work. I would imagine heat would be an issue so you probably want drives with similar/less power draw. Newer drives are likely more efficient so that shouldn't be too hard but it's something to think about.

The things you've read about TFTP/etc are specific to ARM based devices, this is an older PowerPC based device which has a completely different boot/recovery mechanism. This device will boot into a small bootrom that loads the kernel and initrd from flash. It then runs checks to see if a flag was set to force EM mode on next boot, then checks to see if it can find the OS boot volume, finally it checks some files to determine if the OS is in the expected state and then executes the OS init script. If any of those checks fail it goes to EM mode and waits for the firmware updater to connect so that you can reinstall/recover. This works fine with blank disks.

2.18 is the newest one I ever had, it appears to be the same as found here:
https://www.buffalo.jp/product/detail/software/hd-h1.0tgl_r5.html

I don't really have any OSX experience, I think i played with 10.5 on a laptop briefly many years ago.