Author Topic: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds  (Read 12072 times)

jimcpl

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Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« on: September 23, 2009, 02:22:09 am »
   

Hi,

 

I just got a WHR-G300N.  This is my first experience with an "N" wireless router, and the learning curve seems kind "steep" :)...

 

With some help from Buffalo tech support, I was able to get the WHR-G300N configured as an Access Point, with a fixed IP address on my LAN (192.168.0 subnet).

 

All of my machines that have wireless have only 802.11G adapters, except for my laptop, an HP DV9930US (running Vista 64), which has an Intel 4965AGN mini-card installed, and I've been working on getting the router and 4965AGN working better than G speeds.

 

At first, the laptop adapter appeared in the WHR-G300N web GUI under "Client Monitoring" with "802.11n" showing as "Disabled".

 

I had known about setting the WHR-G300N to 40MHz, but even after doing that, the laptop adapter still showed "Disabled" under "802.11n".

 

So, I was tweaking some of the settings in the adapter configuration, until I found some information that said I needed to set the WHR-G300N to WPA2 and AES. 

 

As soon as I did that, and also set the adapter security settings to WPA2 and AES, Vista was showing ~117mbps.

 

So that was some progress.

 

Now, I'm wondering:  Is that the best that I can do?  Is there any way to get this running at say, 270-300 mbps?

 

Right now, the wireless settings for the WHR-G300N are:

 

Channel: 4

Bandwidth: 40

Extension Channel: 8

Broadcast SSID: checked

 

Separate Feature: unchecked

Wireless authentication: WPA2-PSK

Wireless encryption: AES

 

Under "Advanced(11g)", all the settings are the defaults.

 

Can anyone suggest what other things might help increase the speed above the ~117mbps that I'm getting now?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

 


jimcpl

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Re: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2009, 12:13:11 am »
   

Hi,

 

I think that I've figured things out.

 

First of all, from talking to Buffalo tech support, it appears that the WHR-G300N only operates @ 2.4Ghz (and not at all @ 5Ghz).

 

Then, I found this page, regarding the Intel 4965AGN chipset:

 

http://www.intel.com/network/connectivity/products/wireless/wireless_n/overview.htm

 

Note that on that page, under "Friendly Neighbor Assurance", it says:

 

  "Supports current Draft-N standard direction to support 40MHz channels only in 5GHz 

  spectrum to minimize negative impact to legacy devices/networks nearby."

 

In other words, it appears that the 4965AGN is purposely designed to prevent it from using the 50MHz channels @ 5Ghz, and thus it can only interoperate @ 2.4Ghz.

 

From other searching that I did, 11n is suppose to be able to operate @ 300mbps, but apparently it's more difficult to achieve that @ 2.4Ghz, so that's apparently why, in spite of enabling 40MHz operation on the WHR-G300N, I wasn't able to get a connection greater than 130mbps.

 

To kind of prove this to myself, I did more testing, with a Belkin F5D0813 11n PCCARD that I had, in a different laptop (my DV9930US only has an Expresscard slot).

 

The Belkin adapter uses a Ralink RT2860 chipset, so I installed the driver and management app from Ralink:

 

http://www.ralinktech.com/support.php

 

Then, I tested again, using the Belkin card. 

 

The nice thing about the Ralink management app is that it shows receive and send connection speeds along with "throughput".

 

When I tested with the Belkin card and the WHR-G300N, the Ralink app showed that I was getting ~270mbps and ~150mbps receive/send (again, this was on 2.4Ghz)!!

 

So, mystery solved....

 

Anyway, I hope that this information might help someone else...

 

Jim

 

 


zaphod777

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Re: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2009, 12:28:58 am »
   Thanks I now got my router running "n" :-) but I got lost on why we can't get the full 300 speed. I have the same Intel adapter.

jimcpl

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Re: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2009, 08:38:37 am »
   

Hi,

 

I've been tweaking the channels on the router, and I was able to get 144mbps intermittently, but not 150mbps or anything greater than 150mbps.

 

Actually, I'm kind of not 100% clear why I can't get 270-300mbps, using the Intel 4965agn with this Buffalo router too :)...

 

The info that I find indicates that it's theoretically possible to get >150mbps on 2.4Ghz, and I can do that, with a different adapter with the Ralink RT2860 chipset, but not with the 4965agn chipset.

 

I just ordered another router that operates at 5Ghz only, so when that gets in, I'll try it with the Intel 4965agn, and post back.  I fully expect that I'll be able to get that working at 270-300mbps.

 

Jim


zaphod777

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Re: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2009, 08:48:10 am »
   Maybe they will fix it in a firmware update. I am able to get 130 so that is good enough for me for now. 

jimcpl

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Re: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2009, 09:20:26 am »
   

Hi,

 

I don't think that Buffalo can do anything on the router side to change this situation, because the problem is that the Buffalo WHR-G300N is ONLY a 2.4Ghz router, AND the 4965agn does NOT operate at 2.4Ghz/40Mhz.  See this:

 

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=77662&view=previous

 

where they say:

 

"ah ok so you're saying the 4965agn connects to:

2.4ghz @ 20mhz
5ghz @ 20mhz
5ghz @ 40mhz
?

BUT, it won't connect to 2.4ghz @ 40mhz?"

 

I *think*, but am not sure, that in order to get >150mbps, with a wireless router that operates on only 2.4Ghz, the wireless adapter needs to be able to operate at 2.4Ghz AND 40Mhz. 

 

Mind you, I haven't found anything definitive that says that it's impossible to get >150mbps with an adapter (like the 4965agn) that can only work at 2.4Ghz with 20Mhz.

 

I also think that that's why that Belkin PCCARD that I have, which uses the Ralink RT2860 chipset is able to work at 270mbps (i.e., the Belkin PCCARD/Ralink RT2860 chipset DOES operate at 2.4Ghz with 40Mhz).

 

My conclusion is that to get >150mbps, you (I) need to either:

 

- Get an adapter that is able to work at 2.4Ghz with 40Mhz, OR

- Get a router that is able to work at 5Ghz with 40Mhz.

 

I'm doing the latter (waiting for the new router). 

 

I know that this is all probably very confusing :)...  *I* keep getting confused, anyway :)...

 

Jim


Aveyer

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Re: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2009, 10:07:51 am »
   There is nothing wrong with the router, it operates in 2.4GHz (20mhz or 40mhz mode) only.Your adapter doesn't seem to support 2.4Ghz 40mhz mode, get an adapter that does and you'll get 300mbps speed. I have the same router and a Buffalo N adapter and can get 300mbps no problem.

jimcpl

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Re: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2009, 03:36:52 pm »
   

Aveyer,

 

I've kind of come to the same conclusion, i.e., that it may not be possible to get > 150mbps with the 4965agn and this router, because the 4965agn will only operate at 2.4Ghz/20Mhz and NOT at 2.4Ghz/40Mhz :(...

 

However, I've yet to find a definitive, technical explanation of *WHY* that (>150mbps on 2.4Ghz/20Mhz) is not possible, so I'm still curious.  If you, or anyone else, might be either able to explain that, or cite a reference, I'd be very interested.

 

Thanks,

Jim


jimcpl

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Re: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2009, 07:13:42 pm »
   

Hi,

I think that I've found most of the answers to my question ("Why can't achieve >150mbps with 2.4Ghz and 20Mhz channels?") here:

 

http://www.atheros.com/pt/tech_overview/DFS_app_note.pdf

 

The relevant information is in the "11n Squeezed at 2.4 GHz" section, in particular, where it says:

 

"Rather than two 40-MHz channels, 11n networks can realistically be expected to provide only three non-overlapping 20-MHz channels at 2.4 GHz - just like 11G networks.  Maximum 802.11n PHY throughput for a 20-MHz channel is 150 Mbps."

 

Then, from here:

 

http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=313091&sid=ee5dc86ebfaff097c4b1d75a47e4a981

 

it says:

 

"However, the 4965agn chipset does not support channel bonding in the 2.4 GHz band..."

 

So, I guess that since the 4965agn can only operate on 2.4Ghz/20Mhz, and it cannot channel bond in the 2.4Ghz, that <150mbps I'm seeing is from one 20Mhz channel.

 

Jim


zaphod777

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Re: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2009, 09:23:33 pm »
   

wow good research. You think all "n" devices would just work like "g" does. I guess that is the problem with buying them before there is an official excepted standard by the IEEE. 

 

hopefully this becomes less of a problem in the future.  


jimcpl

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Re: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2009, 03:49:09 pm »
   

zaphod,

 

Thanks.  It's been interesting, learning about all of this stuff.  At this point, my conclusion is that 11n is definitely not just like 11g, as it seems that there are a lot more "knobs to tweak", plus, I don't know what is mandatory vs. optional in the 11n specs, but it seems different manufacturers and products leave certain things out and other don't.

 

In my case, for example, the WHR-G300N is only 2.4Ghz (vs. 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz), but supports both 20Mhz and 40Mhz channels.  Then again, the Intel 4965agan adapter chipset supports 40Mhz channels only on 5Ghz, which doesn't allow it to work at >150mbps with a 2.4Ghz router like the WHR-G300N.

 

As mentioned above, I did test a different Belkin adapter that DOES do 40Mhz channels on 2.4Ghz, and got 270mbps.

 

As an additional test, I just did a test with my daughter's laptop, which has an Intel 5100 wireless chipset.  Initially, I couldn't get >150mbps with that either (again WHR-G300N set for 40Mhz channels), but, after installing the latest Intel 5100 drivers, and doing some work with some other 11g routers I have in the house (moving them to a different channel that was "out of the way"), I was able to get 270mbps-300mbps with the WHR-G300N.

 

I don't know if things are going to get any easier, as I think that there isn't going to be much changed from the "Draft 2.0" specs to the final 802.11n specs.  The only thing that I can see that might make things "easier" is if all 11n routers all supported both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz simultaneously (and 20Mhz and 40Mhz channels on both), but I think for cost/price purposes, we are always going to see some 2.4Ghz-only routers.  Also, from what I've read, that "no 40Mhz on 2.4Ghz" spec is actually something in the 11n specs, so it kind of seems that the adapters that DO support 40Mhz channels on 2.4Ghz are kind of out-of-spec for 11n.  That's probably why the 2 802.11n settings for the Intel wireless chips are set to 20Mhz by default.

 

The result of all of this is that I think you're going to see a lot of posts in forums, etc. asking "Why can't I get >150mbps?" for a long time to come, and maybe a lot of people getting peeved when they find out that their new "11n, 300mbps" router is only 2.4Ghz.

 

Jim


zaphod777

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Re: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2009, 10:59:52 pm »
   

Agreed it seams to be a friendly neighbor option that is  in the "n" specs that causes the issue with 2.4 ghz only routers. I wish I could turn it off but I haven't found a way.

 

Maybe if buffalo comes out with a 2.4ghz and 5ghz simultaneous, with gigabit wan/lan, and USB 3.0 then I will upgrade. But for now this is  good enough. Currently I only have 2 Laptops with "n" cards, a HTC Magic, and my PS3 that streams videos off my 1 TB drive attached to the router. 

 

 

So between the 100 megabit lan and the latency on the HDD I think I am not even using the speed that I have. 

 

But I am a Geek so I just want it to have it to have it not because I need it.   


jimcpl

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Re: Help get my new WHR-G300N working @ 11n speeds
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2009, 11:17:45 pm »
   

Hi,

 

Same here (the "geek" part :)), but, actually, I'm doing all of this as I've avoided 11n till now, and so I'm trying to come up to speed, as the ratification seems to be coming upon us fast.

 

I'm taking a little different route though. 

 

I've been looking at the simultaneous dual-band, but didn't really feel like purchasing one of those, since I *just* got the WHR-G300N, so I found a 5Ghz-only router, and am getting that to try to "supplement" the 2.4Ghz-only WHR-G300N.  It should be in this coming week, and I'll post back as to how that does with the 4965agn.

 

Also, BTW, a little off-topic maybe, but I did this test earlier today:

 

- My daughter has an HP laptop with an Intel 5100 card

- I installed the latest Intel drivers

- I set the two 802.11n parameters in the driver to "Auto" and "Throughput Enhancement" to "Enabled"

- On the WHR-G300N, I set it to channel 1 and 40Mhz, which set extension channel to 5.

- I changed all of my 11g routers (I have 3 of those) to channel 11 (i.e., the farthest on the "other end" of the 2.4Ghz range)

 

I tested with her laptop, and I was able to get 270mbps-300mbps.

 

So, this is a 2nd confirmation that if an adapter can support 40Mhz channels and 2.4Ghz, I can get 300mbps connections.

 

Of course, I still can't do anything with the 4965agn, since that won't support 40Mhz channels at all on 2.4Ghz, but I think/hope that that 5Ghz-only router will take care of that problem by allowing me to run 40Mhz@5Ghz to get the 300mbps :)...

 

Jim